LS: Do you think the hegemony of the US in the world declined because of the action that followed 9/11? For example it seems as if the true beneficiaries of the War on Terror are China and Russia.
PDS: Well, let us go through that bit by bit. One of the major consequences of 9/11 was the invasion of Iraq and I think there is almost no one who … everyone would agree that American power in the world and particularly in the Middle East has been eroded because of the invasion of Iraq. It has resulted in first of all in the election, if you want democracy in Iraq then the majority are going to rule and the majority are Shi’a, so you now have a Shi’a government in Iraq. And it is much more friendly to Iran than it is to the United States. Many people could have – and did – predict this. It is not rocket science, it is pretty obvious.
That also has led to major tensions between the US and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia historically — whether they should be or not can be debated – but historically it has been the strongest ally of the United States in that region. And now there are major differences because Saudi Arabia was delighted to see Saddam Hussein go but they did not want an invasion; because they knew it would destabilize Iraq and create this state of – I don’t want to say a failed state; I don’t like that phrase – but a very weakened authority in Iraq, which is very dangerous to Saudi Arabia. They have every reason legitimately to be upset about what America did in Iraq and so that weakens America’s relationship to Saudi Arabia.
You have the whole of the Middle East now – Zbigniew Brzeziński called it an Arc of Crisis back about 1978 or ’79; it is much more an Arc of Crisis now than it was then as a result of … you know I think that the invasion of Afghanistan was also misguided but it is much more defensible than the invasion of Iraq and the two of them have grossly expanded let us not talk about Al-Qaeda, now let us talk about Al-Qaedist forces, people who do similar things to Al-Qaeda, and there are many groups now and many of them are actually based in Iraq as a result of America’s invasion of Iraq. And this is spreading into Africa, so I am not sure that the beneficiaries are really so much Russia and China as lawlessness.
I think Russia, China and America all have common interests in not seeing terrorists and I think Russia has made it very clear that they would like to collaborate with the United States in dealing with terrorism and there are times when – particularly Obama seemed as if he was going to do more in common with Russia, particularly in Syria for example, where Al-Qaedist elements are a major part of the problem now for both Russia and America.
And then we suddenly get the Ukraine, where even the Ukraine you could really blame in a way of what has happened since 9/11. That might take more time than we can do in our hour here but the deterioration of understanding between Russia and America — which Afghanistan is part of that — these are all complicated things, but one thing that is so clear is that the Iraq thing was a disaster and it has created tensions and if we don’t learn how to deal with these tensions we are closer to the risk of nuclear war today than we have been for 20 or 30 years and that is a very alarming situation.
LS: Related to the Iraq war, has the peace movement around the world failed post-9/11 for it protested for example against the war in Iraq but without questioning the root of all evil, the official 9/11 narrative as a pretext and justification to go to war?
PDS: Certainly it would have been a more powerful protest movement against the idea of war in Iraq if we had understood what happened on 9/11. I don’t think that it is realistic to think that we could have known enough at the time – you know, America went in in 2003 and we didn’t even get the 9/11 commission report until 2004. So I don’t think it ever could have helped the anti-war movement in 2003, but it certainly could help future such movements.
I don’t know what is going to happen in Ukraine but … well, actually I think I do know now. I think Europe is intervening to stop America making a complete fool of itself. I cannot believe some of the things that John Kerry has said recently. I mean when he for example said to Putin after Crimea, we don’t do that kind of thing in the 21st century. Well, America has been the most conspicuous and flagrant example of that kind of behavior.
So I think people not in government have to mobilize around the world and create a kind of global public opinion that can check – I don’t want to say just America, but America and other governments when they start doing excessive things. It used to be the case that governments didn’t worry about public opinion and that was bad. And now we are beginning to develop a public opinion, which can constrain governments; and it has on occasion and that is good.
I think public opinion for example was a major factor in persuading American corporations not to invest in South Africa. And that divestiture movement, which was public opinion, was a major factor, and Nelson Mandela has said as much, one major factor in the liberation of South Africa. So there have been … public opinion in the end is what ended the segregation in the southern United States. So there is positive … it was not successful in Iraq but you shouldn’t draw the conclusion from a single failure that these things are not worth doing. They are.
Source: http://www.globalresearch.ca/americas-deep-state-from-the-jfk-assassination-to-911/5387835
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